"It is the story of a most remarkable comeback. If that finally happens, as I say it would, it would go down in history as one of the most remarkable comebacks of any political party. Rama Krishna Hegde did that in 1985 after that this would be the story," says Yogendra Yadav, adding he won't be surprised if AAP crosses 50 seats in the 2015 assembly elections if the present trends continue. Prime Minister Modi has not been able to transfer his popularity to BJP's chief ministerial candidate, Kiran Bedi, and Congress, he says, is in a state of free fall. After the shock of the complete wipeout of the AAP iin Delhi in the 2014 Lok Sabha polls, the party decided not to contest assembly polls in Maharashtra and Haryana (Kejriwal and Yadav both come from here) focussing instead on winning back Delhi. Is the AAP chief sometimes difficult to work with?" In some ways, not at all, he is straightforward, he is transactional. This turn around in Delhi is again an example of extraordinary organisational effort which very few people can do. Now if you do that, yes, you can be difficult. If his mind is not on that particular thing, then he can be completely switched off. That sometimes does not go well." So what has worked for the AAP in Delhi and how difficult were the months following Lok Sabha results? Rupashree Nanda speaks to Yogendra Yadav to get some answers.
Here is the full transcript of the interview:
CNN IBN: It is a make or break election for the AAP the Prime Minister will address four rallies in the next few days. Do you think it can change the mood. Are you worried?
Yogendra Yadav: One you said it is make or break. I don't view any election like this. It is a critical election for us. Will the Prime Minister make a difference? I don't think. The critical moment was 10th of January that rally I must now confess, I looked at that with some concern and apprehension. BJP had not announced a candidate, there were saying Kejriwal Vs Modi and if the Prime Minister's rally was a great success that would have caused us some concern.
I now know it was not a concern because the big rally has flopped, they have now named Kiran Bedi. So now, Prime Minister has to transfer his popularity to kiran Bedi. That's a different thing from what he used to do in Maharashtra and Haryana and everywhere - that look at me, trust me, I will give you someone who will do very well. Now, they actually have named a person. So now the burden has to be carried by her and as we have seen in the past ten days or so, it simply is not happening. Kiranji has further deepened the downslide for the BJP and it is just too late in the day for any recovery. The rally may be well attended.
I grant BJP the organisational might to make four rallies of the Prime Minister well attended. I would be surprised if they are not well attended. I think they would put all their organisational might to somehow make sure. Will it change the mind of ordinary people? I don't think so.
CNN IBN: What gives you the confidence that the AAP is headed for a landslide win? You have seen many elections over many years and you have said that AAP could win over fifty seats? Will it not be disappointment for the AAP if it does not win that many seats and wins a simple majority?
Yogendra Yadav: I am saying at the moment AAP is sailing clearly above forty seats and if this trend continues, I'll not be surprised if we touch or even cross fifty. This is a classic wave situation. Look at Nitish Kumar's victory in Bihar.
Every journalist went there and said , ' yeah people are inclined for him kuch positive toh hai, lekin hawa nahi ... maybe he has a thin edge .. probably scrape through ... when in an election you see everything pointed in one direction even mild, then you know it is a landslide.
Right now everything points in the same direction. In AAP there is a upswing among political workers, there is a tendency to come towards the AAP. In the BJP, there is a complete disarray. Every day they think of a new strategy and they flop by the evening.
CNN IBN: But many BJP workers have also joined the AAP... and unlike last time you hear anti- AAP statements also. It may not be very vocal but it is there. The negativity that was associated with Arvind Kejriwal's resignation is still there.
Yogendra Yadav: I doubt. You are absolutely right to say that after the resignation there was enormous negativity. We were punished for it. We were punished very badly in Delhi because of that. Infact, post Lok Sabha election, it went up. We had very, very tough two months and I wouldn't know how we would have fared if BJP had held the election in July -August. It would have been a very tough election for us. After that things changed slightly.
In the last four to six weeks ( and your viewers can check it ) in the last four to six weeks things have shifted. Those people who were angry with Arvind are now willing to give him another chance.
Middle classes and upper middle classes where it was very, very tough for us till two months ago (it) is opening up ... ' ek baar koshish toh karte hain.. aadmi imaandar toh hai but he is not immoral, not dishonest'.. that is the sense that I now get . So things have changed and, infact they have changed somewhat dramatically after Kiran Bedi's annointment . So what BJP thought would work for them is working against them.
CNN IBN: People do change their mind... there is a huge segment of people who haven't made up their minds which is why these last few days are very crucial ... don't you think that the AAP is over confident?
Yogendra Yadav: We are not over confident. All I am saying is that this is the direction in which the trend is pointing. Am I worried about something? Yes I am. But not about people suddenly switching their mind... there is no reason for them to suddenly change their mind. I am worried about two or three things.
I am worried about BJP's dirty tricks department; this very morning, suddenly a news is flashed across channels that an AAP candidate is found with so many liquor bottles. It is found to be a completely false story. I expect more of them in the coming few days and I am worried about some pushing and muscling and misuse of official machinery.
CNN IBN: If we look from the Lok Sabha elections till now, what do you think has changed for the AAP? How have you been able to make a come back?
Yogendra Yadav: It is the story of a most remarkable comeback. If that finally happens, as I say it would, it would go down in history as one of the most remarkable comebacks of any political party.
Rama Krishna Hegde did that in 1985 ... after that this would be the story. I think, two or three things - one at the organisational level. We had a tough time in the first two months of the Lok Sabha elections you can walk on the streets and people would say' istifa kyun diya tha', 'Modi ke khilaf ho', 'you have changed your plank '... and for the party to stand there and the workers to go and to create organisation structure, I would say hats off to our Delhi team, to Arvind who meticulously saw through that.
We have created booth level teams which we did not have last time. Last time we were all enthusiasm and energy but very little organisation structure. This time we have booth level teams almost everywhere. Second, we have aggressively gone ahead with positivity.
For the last three months, what have we been doing? We have been talking about bijli, about water, we are talking about women's security... we have gone ahead talking about specific issues of Delhi. And why? Because we knew that there was a question. People were saying that yes you are honest, yes you are courageous but can you govern? So we said ok we will take it on board and people will respond to it.
And our Delhi dialogue team, and again hats off to Ashish Khetan and our team, they have slogged to bring out the manifesto. For the first time for the people of this city, a political party has gone ahead to actually give a positive blueprint of how this city would be governed . Positivity works. And third, vis a vis the media, we said ok we don't have to do anything dramatic, we have to comeback inch by inch- which is what we have done. We have gone ahead with positivity and in the last instance positivity wins.
CNN IBN: Is there a change of strategy also when it comes to selection of candidates. For instance this time we have a higher percentage of candidates with criminal records? Last time you removed two candidates who had criminal records.
Yogendra Yadav: So have we this time. We have removed two candidates as you know. And, that too, on the recommendation of Lokpal. AAP is the only party in the country which has an independent judge, Admiral Ramdaas, one of the most distinguished persons in this country. He is not a member of our party, he is above the party but his orders are binding on us.
So this time too there were complaints, we looked at the cases and he ordered the two candidates be removed because they did not come up to the mark. There are complaints against others as well. He does not think, in his judgement, those complaints are not strong enough.
About the criminal records I think, this is something i have pleaded with ADR and other organisations, and not just after entering politics. We must find a way case of distinguishing cases that are filed against people in public life which are political in nature.
Now, there is a case of criminal defamation against me. What is this case about? Last time there was a candidate against whom we found serious complaints, we removed him and I was stupid enough to give reasons to the press. He filed a criminal defamation case. Next time in ADR report, I would turn out to be a criminal.
So we have to make a distinction about political cases and cases where criminal seriousness are involved. Please tell us which of our candidates are criminal? Our Lokpal is still open for correction. We have said very very clearly even one day before election we shall remove our candidate if there is any evidence of criminality, corruption found against our candidate that which our Lokpal finds have satisfactory evidence .
CNN IBN: Even today the BJP approaching the election commission on a statement that Kumar Vishwas has made reportedly he has said something defamatory against Kiran Bedi?
Yogendra Yadav: Our approach has been that we are not interested in mud slinging at all. BJP has done a lot of things and some would be surprised that the same media which has lots and lots of questions to ask us about one word, 'opportunist' being used about Kiran Bedi ji does not have any questions to ask of the BJP or the kind of statements that the prime minister has made about the kind of advertisement that they have issued yesterday, and these are very low by any standards, but our focus is very clear.
We don't have time to waste over those things. We don't have time even to complain to the election commission about those things. The people of Delhi will decide and I acutally want BJP to issue those kinds of advertisements every day.
Let the people of Delhi see it. I also would like Kiran Bedi ji to give an interview every day so that the people of Delhi know what her plans are, people of Delhi get to see what she stands for so we are definitely not into any defamation.
As you know, as a journalist all kinds of stories that are going around in Delhi's journalistic circles about Kiran Bedi ji's background. We have not touched any one of them. It is only one of those rare occasions when the opposition party does not pick up-that you know as a journalist are around.
We simply have not done that because we do not want it to be an election of character assassination. We want to focus on positives, we want to talk about women's security, water, electricity, about employment, education, health. This is what an election should be about. Isn't it.
CNN IBN: You released your manifesto ... you have promised something to everybody... do you think it is achievable..a does it not fall back on a socialist philosophy?
Yogendra Yadav: There's a difference between promising something to everyone and promising the moon. I agree to the first charge. Yes, we have promised something to everyone. It is our job. We are a political party. We are here to seek votes from everyone. The real question is are promises irresponsible, non serious, are they non implementable, and I would invite anyone, I invite you to say which one of these are un implementable, I invite the BJP, I invite everyone in the country to tell us which of our promises are impossible to implement, non-serious or bad.
CNN IBN: Arvind Kejriwal tries to be different things to different people, all things to all people- when he is speaking with Poorvanchalis, he says we have given 11 tickets to poorvanchalis, uses the phrase 'ram rajya' to evolve a particular sentiment- among Muslims he uses a different discourse. Are you trying to be all things to all people? Is that the AAP's problem - ambiguity?
Yogendra Yadav: In communication we speak to the audience like I am speaking to you. Like I am aware that some of your audience would be investment friendly. I am aware that many of your audience would be reading the pink news paper. If you were a hindi channel I would not talk about those things at all. Yes, you communicate for your audience. The real thing is are we giving contradictory signals. Are we saying one set of things at one place which others would not like to hear.
In this age of television, you cannot say one thing at one place and get away in another place. It will be instantly telecast. So yes, Arvind does it. Every politician does it. Every politician should do it. So if I am in my Mewat, should I talk about Lokpal? An issue they have not heard about? I can educate them but my lecture cannot be about lokpal. I have to talk about the real situation in Mewat.
CNN IBN: AAP started as a modern party shedding the shackles of case, language that were done by other political parties.. don't you think it disappoints that dream - when you are talking about caste and even religion in a subtle manner... when you talk about ram rajya?
Yogendra Yadav: Not at all. AAP was a party that was expected to break free from this. And AAP has indeed broken free from all those things.
CNN IBN: Then why would he say that AAP has given 11 tickets to Poorvanchalis?
Yogendra Yadav: When you are in politics, when you are in a region specific, it is not just region in terms of Poorvanchalis and others. People ask you does the candidate reside in this particular constituency, whether he resides in the road accross the constituency. It is a legitimate question. Poeple want to be able to connect to the candidate. I dont think that there is anything wrong with it. The fact is that Delhi has had huge migration and Delhi's politics used to reflect the pre-migration stage.
One of the things that has happened with the coming of the AAP or any new party is that that the politics re-adjusts to a new new demograhy of the city and if Arvind Kejriwal highlights it there is nothing wrong with it. The real problem would be if we start pandering to casteism, communal things. The important thing to my mind is that here is the AAP - everyone knows we get more Dalit votes than any other party in Delhi.
We have not said one thing which is a typical angry Dalit discourse. We are the most popular party among the Muslims of Delhi, we have not said one thing which is the typical old styled called secular but Muslim communal parties used to do.
CNN IBN: Which are the Muslim communal parties?
Yogendra Yadav: I should withdraw the word Muslim Communal Party...I should say parties like SP, the RJD, Congress for that matter...in many ways, the Left. They had actually reduced secularism to a mockery. In the eyes of ordinary people it looked like favouring one community.
AAP has broken free of that. Ant this to my mind, is a huge leap forward. Muslims of the country want a new kind of politics. They do not want to vote again and again only on Babri Masjid, or Urdu, on Aligarh Muslim University...they want to vote on water, electricity, education, employment. AAP has become a channel for them to do that.
CNN IBN: Arvind Kejriwal evokes strong emotions, either is loved deeply or hated very deeply...He inspires either hope or resentment. Is it difficult to work with him?
Yogendra Yadav: The reason why he evokes strong reactions is because of what he represents. He represents a new kind of politics which can have two or three reactions. The moment you have hope, sometimes your hope can go sky rocketing. And then you're disillusioned. Because people don't have a sense of what can be realistically achieved in a limited period of time in the messy thing of politics.
There have been many people who have been genuinely disappointed. It also evokes anger among those who do not want an alternative politics in this country. Why is BJP spending so much energy in winning what would be one of the smallest states that is Delhi? Why have they put all their reputation at stake which is almost politically suicidal.
It is because AAP presents a possibility of a viable alternative. They don't want to see that. So obviously Congress and BJP have an extra love for us that comes out.
CNN IBN: Is he (Kejriwal) a difficult person to work with?
Yogendra Yadav: In some ways not at all, because he is straightforward, he is transactional. He is one of the best managers I would come across. Either he would not put his mind into something at all, but once he puts his mind to something, he is willing to get to every possible detail which is a sign of a very, very good leader. Make him in charge of Olympics tomorrow and within six day she would have mastered the basics of what is Olympics and what needs to be done.
This turn around in Delhi is again an example of extra ordinary organisational effort which very few people can do. Now if you do that, yes, you can be difficult. If his mind is not on that particular thing, then he can be completely switched off. That sometimes does not go well.
CNN IBN: Talking about Haryana elections, you were one of the persons who had not agreed with that decision. In retrospect, do you think it was the right or wrong decision?
Yogendra Yadav: Once the party takes a view, then you stop saying it was right, it was wrong. You know in politics retrospective vision is a very bad political action plan. In politics you look forward.. I am looking forward to Haryana. I'm looking forward to the positivity thatthe Delhi polls will bring for Haryana. I'm looking forward to what we can achieve from where we stand.
CNN IBN: You're still not saying whether it was the right decisinn or not...
Yogendra Yadav: The best judgement on these things will come 10 years from now. Let's leave it to historians.
CNN IBN: Is the AAP prepared to sit in the opposition?
Yogendra Yadav: Every political party always is. All this while, for the last eight months, we have been in the opposition and in some ways even a ruling party is always in opposition to something or the other. A political party has to be open to any possibility. This looks extremely unlikely to me as of today. We should look forward to 14th of February when Arvind will take oath as CM and we'll make sure the day he resigned last time, is the day he takes oath this time. We'll come back and fulfill the promises.
CNN IBN: If the AAP puts up an impressive performance, will the credit also go to the BJP which for the manner in which it has managed its campaign. Should you send a thank you card to the BJP, if at all and when you do win...?
Yogendra Yadav: I agree with you. Yes, we had put in a lot of solid work. Yes we were inching our way to success. However, if the BJP had not helped us the way it has in the atleast few weeks, things would have been far more tough for us. I think a due share of credit must go to the BJP. We'll try to think of a thank you note possibly a bouquet...tell us where to deliver.
CNN IBN: We have not talked about the Congress party.
Yogendra Yadav: Congress is in a state of free fall. When you're seen to be number three, your fall begins. I'm not saying with any sense of condensation because we have suffered the same in Haryana and other places. If you are seen not to be among the top 2.
This is exactly what has happened to the Congress. It is below 10% right now and my sense is that it will slip even further in actual elections.
CNN IBN: So how many seats for the Congress Party?
Yogendra Yadav: Once you slip below 10 per cent, you are virtually contesting as an independent. They do win one or two seats.
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